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Talk:M2 Bradley
I'm really confused about this page - 1. There was actually a light tank during the first Tiberium War, but it was one of the heaviest vehicles in Nod's arsenal - only the flame tank had more power and armor. If it truly does refer to the lighter armored vehicles, then for Nod, this would be the buggy or the attack cycle. 2. Again, during the Great World War II, the Allies used a light tank - an actual light tank. Therefore, I'm confused as to exactly what this page is for. You due are right about The light tank being Nod's heaviest tank, but the people at westwood made up the names and that means i actully cant do anything about it (I am speaking for myself) I think it was called the light tank because it was the lightest tank on the battlefield, outweighed and outgunned by the Medium and Mammoth varieties. --Dthaiger 21:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC) Light Tank is also a military term. The picture indicates that it's an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, compared to the "Medium Tank", which is a Main Battle Tank. In Red Alert, they added the "Heavy Tank", which added four steps to the tree: Light, Medium, Heavy, and Mammoth. The real name is called M2 Bradley you got that by mistake plus the tank never used the TOW Missiles.(Assaulthead 05:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)) --> Actually, the Allies in the first game was all of Europe besides the USSR before WWI (the Nordic countries I am not sure of). Those three are merely some of the playable factions. In the ini definitions, Blue is the color of Greece, and Spain is gold. etc etc --IconOfEvi 07:41, May 14, 2010 (UTC) What I find most amusing is that the Allies consisted of the British, French, and Germans. Why did they only have American vehicles? (The answer to the latter question is probably that Westwood didn't want to have to redo any of the existin game models.) 20:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Black Hand Light Tank I'm going to try and find out it's technical name, so a seperate article about it can be written (I'm talking about the Nod Light Tank in Renegade). --Snow|93(talk) (Edward Lilley) 11:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC) Light Tank in Renagade Should there be a section or seperate article explaining why Nod's Light tank looked different in Renagade than in TD? Or for that matter, sections in Nod's Stealth Tank and Flame Tank articles for their different configurations in Renagade. --Eldarone 15:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC) :Well, there's a mention that it was a new version of the tank designed for the Black Hand which was essentially a prototypical version of the Tick tank. Mikael Grizzly 16:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC) ::Any details on this Black Hand Light Tank that could be added as a footnote to the Tick Tank section? --Eldarone 00:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC) Captured from Nod? "Thus to this effect, captured Nod schematics were put into effect, though not as often, as GDI operational doctrine preferred still slow but hard hitting units." Okay first thing, GDI's arsenal is not limited to the 20-odd units or so that we see in-game. GDI had aircraft carriers as well as the F/A-18 Hornet, as witnessed in cutscenes. Is it so hard to imagine that they had the M2 Bradley to begin with? If anything, it's Nod that used its vast wealth in Tiberium to steal the Bradley (and the Apache, M110, SSM launcher) from GDI or the countries that comprise GDI Lalala la 17:17, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::Well, thats the point of what I'm trying to get at. In a certain cutscene, the GDI version has a gold colored Bradley retaking a building (Nod version is same, just different colors and banners). However, yes, thats what the sentence is saying there. However, GDI as a whole prefers slower methodical tactics, thus the Bradley would be restricted to personnel transport as an IFV, or used by some smaller countries own militaries, not GDI command as a whole (UAE, Liberia, etc). --IconOfEvi 23:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC) It would be better just to say the light tank was more widely deployed in the field by Nod than by GDI and leave it at that, rather than speculate. Even calling it the M2 Bradley, given the timelines aren't the same, might be stretching it. - Meco (talk) 02:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC) ::As far as we know, the same people exist in the alternate timeline as our real one (seeing as how they had a picture of Patton). The IFV/tank is the same, so it stands to reason it is the Bradley. As for using the Bradley, the only way GDI would be able to use the Bradley as a Light Tank would have been with Nod schematics. Its a matter of logic. --IconOfEvi 04:30, 12 July 2009 (UTC) Proof that the same individuals achieved similar prominence in-universe as in real life? - Meco (talk) 15:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC) :Uh, George Patton for instance? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 18:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC) Extrapolating from a single example seems rather shaky. - Meco (talk) 18:32, 12 July 2009 (UTC) :As is extrapolating the opposite with nothing. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 19:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC) No, what we have is: we know Patton still has some measure of fame, but we do not know about anybody else. Everybody else we haven't heard of could be either "yes, still famous (enough)" or "no, no longer famous (enough)". It would be speculating to claim either of these possibilities since we don't know. The only non-speculative option is to hold to the middle neutral ground which is to claim neither. Even if Bradley is still famous enough (which we have no proof of) that's still not enough to say the vehicle is named after him. That presupposes that things worked out exactly like they did in the real world. For all we know the M2 "Bradley" was named after Patton instead! To recap: we don't know. And to claim we do is no better than fanon. - Meco (talk) 19:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC) ::Most events happened similar to our time. For example, Desert Shield/Desert Storm occurred (meaning the Iran-Iraq War before it as well, as well as all Iraqi history after 1937, Saddam's birthdate), with the minor addition of the fact of Echo 9 failing to kill Saddam, thus blowing their cover. --IconOfEvi 02:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Still doesn't show that Bradley evolved the same way he did in real life. - Meco (talk) 02:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC) :If it looks like an elephant, sounds like an elephant and acts like an elephant, I call it an elephant. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 08:09, 13 July 2009 (UTC) That's not proof either. - Meco (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC) ::Now you're being unreasonable. I am sure, if Brett Sperry or Joe Bostic came around, they way say, indeed, its a Bradley. The quest to eliminate fanon is getting ridiculous. --IconOfEvi 20:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :Then let them come round. I would be very happy to see the ambiguity struck dead straight from the horses' mouths. If you want fanon, that's what the fanon wiki is for. - Meco (talk) 12:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC) ::Then consider this: C&C1 was developed at first without being in a separate timeline, based on how its creators thought the world would develop, based on the events of early 1990s (Desert Storm etc). It stands to reason, on this ground, that they used already existing weapon and vehicle designs, carrying their designation over. But I see your point. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 08:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC) :::Exactly, its not like I don't GET your point, but if you drag most anyone here, they'll say its a Bradley. For example, the Medium Tank would be an Abrams there as well, as the Vietnam/SE Asia conflict also occured in the timeline (Soviets had a command post in Hanoi I think, and Nod is affiliated with the Khmer Rouge). People's roles may change slightly (Khukov, Stalin), but ultimately, the people and their actions are mostly similar. It stands to reason that Patton was the grandest tank commander in CNC as well as real life. And it stands to reason Bradley is famous for his deeds as well. As for coming out, Brett Sperry is unfortunately an extremely private man. Maybe he's popped around here, but still. --IconOfEvi 09:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Good fanfic These tanks were lightly armoured and armed with 75mm APDS cannons and TOW launchers on the turret, relying on speed and maneuverability rather than brute force to succeed in battle. In addition to the cannon and rockets, the tank could also carry several soldiers in the transportation compartment in its back, which proved to be an invaluable asset in urban warfare. The M2 Bradley was originally an American Infantry Fighting Vehicle, developed to meet the growing need and proven effectiveness of IFVs. It was originally mounted with a 25mm chaingun and TOW missiles to engage tanks with, and indeed proved effective when Desert Shield and Desert Storm came to pass. It was originally a complicated machine, and had its disadvantages, but for all intents and purposes, was successful. Interestingly they were originally designed as a Infantry Fighting Vehicle, but when pressed into service for the Allies and later the Brotherhood of Nod their ability to carry personnel was largely removed in favour of more armour and stronger weapons. Also, the Bradley was a cheap vehicle to produce, that could be easily modified with an APDS cannon. Prior to the First Tiberium War, Nod acquired the blueprints for the Bradley fighting vehicle as they had compromised the United Defense corporation. While the M1 Abrams would have been a preferred acquisition to many commanders, the M2 Bradley had its uses in being cheaper, easier to produce, and faster - thus suiting Nod combat doctrine, which didn't usually go for direct heavy hitting power. While they were still lightly armored, Nod with their vast funds did all they could to make the IFV into a proper tank - this involved uparmoring the chassis and replacing the M242 Bushmaster 25mm chaingun with a 75mm APDS cannon. Nod engineering had reduced the complexity and delicateness of the tank to such a degree that it could be used in any theater virtually on arrival. Direct confrontation was never the purpose of the light tank, and commanders rarely ordered direct engagements, unless numbers were on their side. Instead, the tank was mostly employed in ambushes and surprise attacks on under protected infrastructure or for harassing and stopping the progress of enemy forces, which would then be attacked and destroyed by long-range units, such as the M110 artillery or Honest John SSM launchers. They were often used in support of infantry against light vehicles and other threats. As Nod employed the tank as a Main Battle Tank, they rarely had troops in transport compartment, but sometimes an operation would dictate otherwise - especially in the earlier days when there were not as many APCs in Nod inventory. GDI eventually also used the M2 Bradley in wider numbers - they namely found the infantry carrying capacity useful especially on assaults on Nod held territory, where speed was also of the essence. Thus to this effect, captured Nod schematics were put into effect, though not as often, as GDI operational doctrine preferred still slow but hard hitting units. However, GDI Bradleys served with distinction both latewar and postwar, delivering GDI troops to their locations and keeping them protected with a hail of fire. They were eventually retired from all GDI aligned nations well before the start of the Second Tiberium War. Nod, by virtue of the desperate situation they were in postwar, kept theirs for much longer, especially as the Brotherhood began to break up. The simplicity to manufacture the vehicle was a lifesaver to all the factions, and it along with the AH-64 Apache would often be leading assaults on both GDI and other former fellow Nod positions. Its high speed and minimum maintenance would be especially lifesaving as the years progressed and Tiberium started to cover more and more of the Earth, destroying infrastructure. Nod stocks still variably existed in large numbers by the start of the Second Tiberium War - however by then, with Nod eventually reunited to some degree, a new tank was demanded. However, the Tick Tank never proved very popular at all, and was withdrawn well before the Third Tiberium War. M2 Bradleys also thus performed well in the second interim breakup of Nod following the Second and Third Wars, and also were to be found in both civilian and Forgotten armor/vehicle pools. For Nod, even when the Scorpion tank was introduced, it was not able to usurp the popularity that the Bradley enjoyed. As can be ascertained, both Nod (whatever is left of it) and its many many splinters and factions still use the Bradley to this day. ::So whats the problem? It states right in the manual that Nod was thought to be a minor terrorist group until a gigantic defense scandal erupted, and Nod was revealed to have vast military capabilities. United Defense is the company that made the Bradley (at the time). Desert Shield/Storm occured in this life as well as ours. As for being in Tiberian Sun, I do recall old old beta bits on Westwood's site showing the Bradley and Apache still in use. It stands to reason anyway that they wouldn't abandon equipment, especially in the post-first war conflict. Nod combat doctrine IS faster lighter units. Also, there is a humvee still at a GDI base in CNC3, so it stands to reason at least that Nod also kept whatever equipment they could. --IconOfEvi 20:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :::I'm not disparaging your writing skills (which are impressive), it's just that what you write is based on a handful of loose ends and you're drawing a lot of conclusions from them, which is not viable, sadly, if we are to have any modicum of reliability. I do love your writing style, though. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/5/5c/Scribe.jpg/15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 08:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC) ::::Thanks, appreciate it :>. --IconOfEvi 05:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)